"I am closer to military affairs". Interview with Hnatov about the negotiations and Yermak's role in them

on November 28, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced the dismissal head of the Office of the President Andriy Yermakwho headed the working group in the peace talks. Chief of the General Staff Andriy Hnatov will be one of the officials who will now represent Ukraine in international negotiations."I don't have much experience of participating in such events – I've been a military man all my career," he shares with LIGA.net chief of the General Staff Andriy Gnatovbut we worked very fruitfully on issues related to the Armed Forces."The general, as part of the Ukrainian delegation, recently returned from Geneva, where negotiations have begun on Donald Trump's "peace plan". He says that the atmosphere of the meeting was significantly different from the harsh pressure from the United States that journalists feared. In an interview with LIGA.net Andriy Hnatov told us what is happening behind the scenes of the negotiations to end the war and how the Ukrainian group is working."This is a good basis." How the peace talks in Geneva went- What was agreed upon during the meeting in Geneva? There have already been statements that the text of the 28-point agreement shrunk up to 19.- This is a preliminary work, and it is probably premature to say that we have agreed on anything specific. Yes, there was a certain 28-point document that was circulating on the Internet. But this is an approximate figure.Most of the issues in this document were processed and distributed for further work. Issues that do not directly concern Ukraine as a signatory were excluded from the discussion. For example, Russia's interaction with NATO or the United States. This is for them to decide between themselves. The working groups also did not consider decisions that can only be made at the level of presidents.In general, the final document can be considered as a basic document.- Are we talking about a specific document with terms and conditions?- This is a framework document. – On Saturday evening, before the meeting in Geneva, the interlocutors involved in the negotiations, saidthe Americans are being quite tough and insisting that the 28 points that were made public should be adopted without changes. What was the mood during the negotiations?- Different.To say: "There is only one uncompromising list of conditions – and that's it" is a dead end. This is not how the work is done.Overall, it was a constructive dialog. There were some discussions, but not controversial ones. Normal relations, working conversations, adequate proposals.- Will all the points that are currently on the table for discussion between the parties be introduced before or after the ceasefire? Where is its place in the scheme that is currently being discussed?- The terms of the ceasefire are something that can be negotiated between Ukraine and the aggressor country. The talks in Geneva were between Ukraine and the United States and were more about the conditions that would facilitate the ceasefire process and the implementation of further steps.- The Russians have already stated that whatever developments are presented by Ukraine and its partners, they will not be satisfied.- I can't comment on this statement, I haven't heard it.On the battlefield, they will demonstrate what they have always done. Any important events for Russia have always been accompanied by outbursts of aggression. This is exactly what happened tonight.This does not mean that the diplomatic work stops. This does not mean that there was no meeting between Mr. Driscoll (Secretary of the U.S. Army Dan Driscoll. – Ed.) with representatives of the aggressor country. It took place. Hard work continues. Of course, there will be many manipulations. Russia is conducting a powerful information and psychological operation to break down our society and make it lose faith.Even this meeting was followed by several very emotional information waves of hypotheses and hysteria in less than a day. But in fact, there was constructive work at the meeting. The result is very progressive. This is a good foundation.I don't have much experience in participating in such events – I've been a military man all my career. But I was proud to see the work of the head of the working group, Andriy Yermak, the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council, representatives of the diplomatic corps, and representatives of the special services. We worked very fruitfully on issues related to the Armed Forces. And we decided on what is in Ukraine's national interest.- Did you like the experience of participating in such meetings?- To be honest, I am closer to military affairs. But we have to fulfill this mission as well.- Emmanuel Macron has said that following the signing of a peace agreement, a reassurance force will be deployed in Ukraine beyond the front lines in places like Kyiv and Odesa. What is known about this?- This was not discussed in Geneva. If France takes such an initiative, we will have a separate conversation and separate agreements."The deadlines will continue to be pushed back". Will Russians be able to capture Pokrovsk?- Speaking about the situation on the battlefield, how do you assess Ukraine's position now?- Russia has been preparing very carefully for an aggressive offensive war. It is hundreds of times superior to Ukraine in certain capabilities and will spare nothing to achieve its goal. In certain parts of the frontline, it outnumbers us almost ten to one, both in terms of resources and manpower. Under such conditions, we cannot say that something good is happening. There are fierce daily battles.We are currently recording an average of 190-200 attacks per day. This is a very difficult situation.- The Russians are making great efforts to advance in the Pokrovske direction. How do you expect the situation to develop there?- This is an area where Russia will create another basis for its further manipulations.They will continue to try seize Pokrovsk. These attempts have been going on for over a year now, and the Russians are postponing the deadlines they have set for capturing the city. These deadlines will continue to be pushed back.They are now pulling all available reserves there. In total, they have more than 100,000 people on the offensive in this area. It is difficult to predict whether they will be able to create conditions to further complicate the situation.- But as of now, will they be able to surround Pokrovsk?- It depends on the timeframe in which we look at it. Not by the end of the year.We have been looking at the all-pervasiveness since the beginning of the large-scale invasion in 2022. And before that, we looked at it during the ATO/JFO. Someone was always saying that everything was lost, the traitor. But the Armed Forces are fulfilling their task: we are fighting, trying to stop the enemy, inflicting tangible losses on them, hitting strategically important targets deep in Russia, and repelling air strikes. Not everything is perfect. But we are making every effort to fulfill the tasks set by the Supreme Commander-in-Chief."There was no question of reducing the Armed Forces". On the prospects for a truce and the future of the army – Both military observers and military journalists say that one of the things that significantly weakens the Defense Forces is a certain rollback of the Armed Forces to Soviet practices, strengthening of the rigid vertical and promotion of those officers who are not effective but loyal. What is being done to change this situation?- There is a fair opinion that only those who do nothing are not criticized. Some of the Armed Forces are people who were civilians yesterday. Some of them have moved up to different levels of command. The battlefield is a very complex system with many unknowns. It is unfair to say that everyone is as effective as possible in their positions under any circumstances. However, this is influenced by many variables.Of course, there are different commanders. But the overall result is that the contact line is held, the enemy suffers losses, we accomplish our tasks and create conditions for further operations.- The Western media is slowly accepting that the war will continue next year. Do you set any time limits for yourself?- This is a very philosophical question. What is the end of a war? An agreement to end the war can be considered the end of the war. But this will not be the end of the war as such. For me, the end of the war will be the achievement of a just peace with compensation for all losses, all the damage that the aggressor country has caused to our country. Will this happen by the end of the year? Of course not.A ceasefire, under certain conditions, can take place in a few days or a few weeks. This requires the political will of the Russian military and political leadership. If there are conditions under which Putin will stop his troops and their use of weapons, this will be the first step.- Before the talks in Geneva began, one of the most scandalous points was the reduction of the number of the Armed Forces. What is Ukraine's position on this issue?- There was no question of reducing the Armed Forces.We talked about views on the size of the peacetime Armed Forces. This is a very controversial topic.But both sides are right to say that the best guarantee for Ukraine will be an equipped and capable army.- Now the General Staff understands what we have to do to keep people in the army after the fighting is over?- Of course. But all institutions must work here. We need to understand what the Ukrainian army will be like, its size, salaries, social guarantees for military personnel, and many other issues. This work is not the responsibility of the General Staff alone. We have a vision. It is a working document and is being developed.Read alsoThe war is becoming unstable for everyone. Will Ukraine survive – five conclusions from the Geneva talks