"We put the assholes in their place." Sadovyi on Zelenskyy, garbage, and business during the war

"The situation in local self-government is difficult... I feel my position like walking on a razor edge. Because the number of problems is extremely large. I am expected to provide solutions," mayor of Lviv Andriy Sadovyy tells LIGA.net.2026 will be Sadovyy's 20th anniversary in office. The beginning of the third decade of his mayorship does not look easy for him. In the span of 13 months, two high-profile politically motivated murders took place in Lviv– of Iryna Farion and Andriy Parubiy. Construction deadlines by the Polish company Control Process of the garbage processing plant have been disrupted. Despite the large business relocation, there is a catastrophic shortage of labor. What to do about it and how Lviv lives during the war – in an interview with Andriy Sadovyy to LIGA.net."Don't demonize Yermak." About Zelenskyy, the Presidential Office, and Trukhanov– How did you react to the removal of Gennadiy Trukhanov from the post of Odesa mayor?– A person who has Russian passport, cannot hold any position in state authorities or local self-government. Whether Trukhanov has a Russian passport can be proven through court proceedings. As far as I understand, there will be a proceeding. Mr. Trukhanov is a man with a lot of life experience. I think he will be able to defend his position in court.The situation in local self-government is complex. Many cities do not have mayors. Law enforcement often needs performance indicators, and local self-government is in a weak position here.– Do you feel like you're in a weak position right now?– I feel my position like walking on a razor edge. Because the number of problems is extremely large. I am required to provide solutions.We live in a country that is over-regulated and over-bureaucratized, and any of your innovations can be interpreted through the prism of someone`s own vision of the legislation.Read alsoThe Lord of Chaos. How Odesa Mayor Gennadiy Trukhanov Reached the Pinnacle of Power and Suddenly FellThe fact that we manage to do a lot in Lviv actually includes an innovative approach. For example, obtaining permits for new modern construction is a problem. In the Unbroken project, we've built two floors of the rehabilitation center from wood. We tried to pass the state expert review. We waited three months for the conclusions.In Ukraine, no one in state or municipal structures has such experience. We submitted documents for a private expert review, and they approved everything. It turns out all these state experts also work in private companies.This is absurd. In times of war, any decisions must be made quickly.And every leader must take responsibility. But our leaders are afraid. It's better not to do anything so as not to bear any responsibility later.– I was pointed to another problem in construction: it is impossible to obtain a permit for the reuse of materials from ruined buildings because it contradicts regulations. Can local self-government initiate changes to such regulations?– Let me give you another example. Stryiska Street: two years ago, a Russian missile killed 10 people and destroyed four buildings. These are architectural monuments, an area under UNESCO protection. We have restored these buildings, and people are already living there. It was extremely difficult. We calculated that there were four employees of regulatory bodies for every one builder. Can you imagine how many resources we had to use to service all the state structures that controlled this?That's why they say in many communities, "Why rebuild something if you're going to have a sea of problems with law enforcement later?"– In other words, it's discussed in hushed tones within communities, but no public discussions are initiated.– I'm initiating. It's an issue I've been trying to solve lately. There are state taxes, which are strictly controlled by the state tax service. There are also local taxes and fees. The state tax service also handles these. But they are not punished for uncollected local taxes. As a result, they devote minimal time and effort to this part.If cities had the right to independently manage local taxes and fees, the state would receive an additional UAH 30 billion. And Lviv would easily have an additional UAH 400 million. But for this, a decision needs to be made.I discussed this issue with Shmyhal: he was in favor, everyone was in favor – there is no decision. I discussed this issue with Svyrydenko, she said "yes". The President's Office said "yes". There is no decision. That is, there are resources that can be spent on reconstruction, on rehabilitation, but the cities cannot get them.Innovative cases are a risk. You can have different fears and fantasies. But there is common sense. In times of war, we must mobilize all our internal potential.I've discussed these topics with many prime ministers. "Andriy, excellent, let's do it!" – and the issue doesn't move forward. Frankly, I'm surprised.– Under Poroshenko, have they also been afraid?– Under Poroshenko, everything was done that was beneficial to Poroshenko.– And it's not like that now?– Now, there are probably some other rules. Maybe there will be new ones after rotations in the Presidential Office.– In your opinion, how significant are these rotations? How influential was Andriy Yermak, in particular, in relations with local self-government?– Every leader chooses an entourage that they are comfortable with and whom they trust. Therefore, I would not demonize the former head of the Presidential Office. I had one deeper conversation with him in my life; everything else was greetings at forums, so I am not a good expert here.We spoke with Zelenskyy before he became president, and when he became president. Today, I don't dare bother him because he is already overloaded.I felt very comfortable working with government authorities in the first months after the beginning of full-scale invasion because they were open to any innovations, they listened, and they made decisions quickly. But when the enemy was pushed back from Kyiv, everyone relaxed and started living their old, established, peaceful lives.– Is it true that Yermak blocked or filtered access to the president?– I don't know. I never had any problem approaching the president and talking to him if it was necessary and I felt I had to tell him something."I had the illusion that the war would unite everyone"– Lviv is small, and there isn't much free land left here. Is it possible that the Unbroken project's infrastructure will expand to other communities in the Lviv region, and that you will have constructive cooperation with the authorities of other communities?– We have created the Lviv agglomeration, which includes communities within a 30 km radius. This is also a novelty for Ukraine. We have regular meetings and coordinate our activities.Our task is to formulate a common policy in the fields of medicine, education, culture, and infrastructure. People who live in Zhovkva, for example, want the same level of service, and many of them work in Lviv. Therefore, it is important to be able to work together.When we had our first meeting, everyone was very wary: Sadovyi probably wants to take something from us. Although in reality, we often have investment proposals that are not suitable for Lviv. But they can be beneficial for Horodok, for example.The problem with the authorities is the lack of quality cooperation. I had the illusion that the war would force everyone to unite. For a resident, it doesn't matter whether it's city, regional, or state authority – for them, it's all just the authorities.Political assassinations and land "rumbles" in Lviv– You had a dispute with a neighboring community over a plot of land for construction…– It's ongoing. I had a meeting with the leadership of the aviation sector in the country. Lviv Airport has its own master layout for development. There is an understanding at the ministerial level. I'm just waiting for these businessmen to apologize for taking up our time.This entire area, which they tried to develop, should become part of the airport. The areas near the airport are reserved; nothing can be built there. Now that the authorities have weakened, some dealers have privatized this land through various machinations.– Is nothing being built there right now?– Now, thank God, there is a field there. But they have already offered many businessmen to join in the venture. Thanks to your question, I appeal to all builders and developers: do not fall for scams. Do not invest funds in those territories that are reserved for the development of the airport. Because you will have many problems and losses.– When I asked about the land plot, I meant a different one – the one that was allocated in the 2010s for the construction of an industrial park in Riasne. In 2023, a criminal case against you concerning this plot was reopened. – It was investigated for seven years. And it was closed due to the absence of a crime.We engaged the Dutch company CTP, one of the largest developers in the world. They bought the land and were willing to invest several hundred million dollars. This was supposed to be the first industrial park in Lviv. But due to the political unwillingness of the then-state leadership, this project was put on hold.The investor essentially gave this project to Dragon Capital for a pittance and said that he would never set foot in Ukraine again. Dragon Capital built the first phase of the industrial park.I spent a lot of time communicating with the investigators. No one sent me an apology, and no one compensated me for my time and the money I spent on lawyers.Any case that has been closed due to the absence of a crime can be reopened based on anyone's statement. I know nothing about this reopening.– In one of your interviews, you commented listening device, which was found in your office, and made it clear that you believe it was installed by the Ukrainian special services.– I have no confirmation as to who did it. Recently, a listening device was found in the office of the head of the Shevchenkivskyy district administration in Lviv.To go to court and obtain a warrant for wiretapping, you need to have some kind of argument.And if there is no such warrant, then one must illegally break into the office, install a listening device, listen to what we are talking about, and perhaps catch some information that could be grounds to go to court to obtain a warrant for wiretapping. According to the information I have, there were no court warrants for wiretapping.– To what extent do you feel in danger after this discovery and after the two recent political assassinations in Lviv, of Iryna Farion and Andriy Parubiy?– We all walk under God. In Lviv a military recruitment office employee was killed for asking to show documents. It's a good thing the attacker was detained.I've had many difficult situations: my house was shot at with a grenade launcher, grenades were thrown into my yard, and I was attacked on the street. What can I do? Walk around in a helmet, live in an armored capsule? If someone wants to cause you trouble, it's just a matter of an amount of money.Read alsoThere is nowhere to hide. How Ukraine is winning the war of political assassinations on Russian territoryLabor shortage and business relocation– The Economist recently published an article about how Kharkiv is declining due to the war and Lviv is flourishing as many businesses have relocated here. But there are nuances, and the nuances are increasing with winter and the prospect of being left without gas and electricity. The first to suffer will be businesses. – Many companies that had businesses in eastern Ukraine started building another site. For example, I have many colleagues who have businesses in Kharkiv. But they opened additional sites here. Because if they are export-oriented, the distance for delivery abroad is shorter. On the other hand, there might be more labor available. And the fact that Lviv is less shelled probably also matters.We have a well-established relationship with businesses. There are many grant programs, for example, innovation grants of up to UAH 2 million. There is support for veteran businesses – grants of UAH 300,000. All procedures have been simplified as much as possible. This also attracts people.In addition, Lviv once invested a lot of money in infrastructure. Now, unfortunately, we have stopped investing budget funds in the construction and reconstruction of roads, because we spend up to 20% of the city's budget on supporting the Armed Forces.The reverse subsidy that is being taken from us amounts to more than UAH 2 billion. If you want to be business-friendly, you need to invest in infrastructure: new roads, transport links, and networks. You take out a loan from the bank. You invest, you build – wow. Businesses come, start working, and pay taxes. Their number grows. The Ukrainian state says: "Oh, you collected more taxes? Well, we're taking what you collected more of." – "But I need to pay back this loan!" – "That's your problem."Read alsoHow the war has reshaped the map of Ukraine. Kharkiv is in decline, Lviv is flourishing – an overview by The Economist– I recently had a conversation with Oksana Savchuk, an MP from Ivano-Frankivsk. She is concerned that communities might be given the authority to set utility tariffs. You, on the other hand, say that the community would benefit if it could set an economically justified tariff for water supply itself.– Because this is another problem that kills the capacity of communities. Lviv pumps water from 100 kilometers away. Half of the cost of water here is the cost of electricity. The cost of electricity changes quickly and easily because the regional power distribution companies are owned by oligarchs. To change the water tariff, there must be a decision by the National Commission for State Regulation of Energy and Public Utilities.On the tariff map, Lviv is in second position from the bottom – lower than Kyiv, which pumps water from the Dnipro right in the middle of the city. This leveling is a Soviet relic.The same applies to heating. Or fines for destroying architectural monuments. Communities should be given the opportunity to make decisions independently.– But you will have to respond to the dissatisfaction from the tariff increase.– Otherwise, we will kill the water and heating utilities. If you compare infrastructure investments, for example, in Ukraine and Poland, we invest about 20 times less. If there is no money for modernization in the tariff, the entire system falls into disrepair, and it will be much more expensive to restore it later. The city authorities must explain this.If people have better quality services, they will support it.– Investors and businesses that moved to Lviv after 2022 – are they all still here, or have some relocated even further, abroad?– Many have moved abroad. Often, this is due to bureaucratic barriers, a lack of quality lending, and a shortage of high-skilled labor.– Is Lviv experiencing a labor shortage? A lot of people have come here. – Approximately 150,000 people from other communities. But there is a shortage of labor. For example, there are many vacancies in the city council. There is competition with international structures.– I don't know if employers communicate this to you, but demographers have been saying for some time that the Ukrainian economy cannot cope without migrants. Is Lviv ready to accept workers from other countries or continents?– I would do everything possible to make Ukrainians return. From a long-term perspective, this is much more beneficial.We had a case where the Red Cross took on the renovation of a large premises in our hospital. At that time, military recruitment offices increased their activity, the builders didn't want to go to work, and there were problems with getting exemptions. They were behind schedule, so they invited several crews from East Asia. The workers arrived and quickly finished the job.– So, we can say that it was a positive experience.– I don't like it when money that Ukrainians could receive goes to citizens of other countries."We won the garbage blockade, we put those assholes in their place."– Are the construction deadlines for the waste processing plant also being violated now?– There's another problem with the plant. The Polish company that won the tender is creating artificial delays. They have the illusion that if they build for a long time, they will earn more money. Although they have already received 28 million euros from the community. There is a contract, they violated it, and we are currently in litigation with them.This is an unprecedented thing. I wrote a letter to Prime Minister Tusk, I spoke about it with Foreign Minister Sikorski, and with other colleagues from Poland. Everyone responds in the spirit of "a scoundrel, but ours." God grant that Ukraine protects its businesses as other countries do.The work is being done, although not as quickly as we would have liked. The main part has been built, and the equipment has been delivered. The electrical part and auxiliary things remain.I think we will find answers to all the difficult questions, but the reputation of Polish business will suffer very seriously. I have mentioned this several times at international meetings: when Polish investors intend to participate in the reconstruction of Ukraine, we will show them this Control Process case – a company that, with city funds, could not organize quality work on time during the war, within the deadlines we agreed upon.– While the plant is being built, where does the garbage from Lviv go?– They are taken to neighboring communities with which we have agreements.– For a certain period of time, this was blocked. Did this include neighboring communities not being able to accept garbage from Lviv?– They were forbidden.– And then they were allowed?– The pressure from the former president was lifted.– What happened that it was lifted?– We won the garbage blockade, we put those assholes in their place.– How did you win?– They realized it was absurd: in the modern world, in a civilized country, not to allow the community to remove garbage. The mafia in Naples used to do such things. My colleagues went on a hunger strike near Poroshenko's administration: Oksana Syroyid, Oleh Berezyuk, and Taras Pastukh. There was a resonance. Yes, it cost us dearly to get out of that picket. This will forever be written in the history of Ukraine: the garbage blockade as a factor of pressure on the city.– Do you hold a grudge against your colleagues who participated in this blockade?– I would like them to be simply punished for the crime they committed against the citizens of Ukraine. For me, it was probably one of the most difficult periods of my life, but it is certainly not on the same level as the time of war.– Will the capacity of the plant being built be sufficient to process all the waste generated by Lviv?– We are even ready to help the surrounding communities.– Will this plant produce heat or something else?– This will be a mechanical-biological waste treatment, after which a small amount of waste will remain, which will still need to be disposed of. And a large part will be secondary raw materials."The figures are good, but the amount of real money in the budget has not increased"– Have any new foreign investments been made here since 2022?– IT, military R&amp;D – that's private businesses. As for colleagues from the West building things at their own expense – no, they're afraid.– One industrial park in Lviv, Sparrow, recently burned down after being hit by a drone. Do businesses suffering from the war receive any compensation?– We are trying to develop a solution for the city, together with the region and the state, to create a compensation fund to cover insurance risks. It is important to link a program to this that would allow banks to open credit lines at preferential interest rates for investments in infrastructure development.This includes industrial parks. If we don't do this as a state, we will have a collapse.– What are Sparrow's plans now? – They want to resume their work. But if the authorities, for their part, do not offer a safety net, it will be difficult. We, as a city, are ready to get involved because these are jobs for our citizens and taxes that go, among other things, to the local budget.– Overall, as cynical as this question may sound, has Lviv, at least compared to other communities, really benefited from the full-scale war?– Every day we have a lying-in-state ceremony for our heroes. This is a tragedy for everyone. There are no winners: in times of war, everyone loses. Businesses that flee from war would never relocate, but they are saving their will to exist and the state's ability to exist.– Still, economically, compared to 2022, does Lviv win or lose?– The more taxes we pay, the more the state takes from us. Our figures look good, but the amount of real money in the budget has not increased.Read alsoApartments as an investment: in which cities of Ukraine can you still make money on housing?

"We put the assholes in their place." Sadovyi on Zelenskyy, garbage, and business during the war

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